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 Do we really need the shop and stat system?

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Yandere

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PostSubject: Do we really need the shop and stat system?   Fri Dec 07, 2012 1:51 pm

As far as stats are concerned, in my stay in RPGH I never really saw anyone play out the stat system at all. The few who did, were usually exploiting and abusing the crap out of it... and yes I'll be the first to admit I was the biggest culprit of that. xD

Anyway, the bottom line is that the stat system is more or less useless. Instead I propose we just use common sense and some description in the character apps.(ex. let's say my character is some sort of Rock Golem. Even with no visible stats, it's assumed the character is gonna be relatively strong and durable while likely lacking speed and dexterity.)
There's also the whole maximizing thing, that makes everyone the same stat wise.

As for the shop system, it just hinders both character and plot advancement. I mean, most people will be happy with just 2 or 3 abilities anyway; while the others will just spam useless topics or find other ways to pump out every ability ever invented. So I suggest just letting people freely do whatever they want instead.

Which brings me to another topic. I suggest that instead of making people wait to be accepted, which could take a long time depending on staff activity, just make it so that they are pre-accepted. Just disallow the usage of abilities that allow a player to metagame/godmod. With the extra safety precaution in the rules which states something along the lines of: "Should godmodding, metagaming or the such be encountered in abilities a player is allowed to deal with/ignore it in whatever original way they desire."
... yes, in case you didn't notice, that is mean encouraging trolling people who want to be blatantly broken in a distasteful manner. xD

Just as a bit of info, during my time rping, I've noticed these types of sites that have "instant acceptance" are by far more active than those that force people to wait for staff members; this is especially so if said staff members are nit-picky and/or not very active.

Anyway, I believe I had more to add, but I blanked out so I'll leave it at this. xD

PS. Also, 1 account per member instead of character would be nice. I hate having multiple accounts. xo
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Abel XIV
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PostSubject: Re: Do we really need the shop and stat system?   Fri Dec 07, 2012 11:50 pm

I really like your idea regarding pre-approvals. That way, we boost activity and we keep the levels of boredom much lower. Which is great because we are here to have fun. Thus, I fully support it and propose the following rules and requisites for it:

1.- The finished character sheet must be posted on the character creation forum, waiting for approval.
2.- No abilities or weapons that allow godmodding or metagame.
3.- The user controlling a pre-approved character might or might not have posted the apps regarding his / her character, yet, all the abilities and weapons that the character must be reported and explained to those the user plans to RP with. Those abilities and weapons that the user's RP partners approve the use of can be used, the rest cannot.
4.- If for some reason the administration rejects the character or there are problems regarding the user's use of the pre-approved character, the events of the thread/s on which said character was will be considered null if the users involved on the thread decide so.
5.- Thou Shalt Not Kill with a pre-approved character unless you are requested to do so.
6.- Pre-approved character cannot join site (plot or not) events of any kind.



Besides that, I fear that we are gonna keep the shop and stat system. That shall be debated later when the stat system and shop are up though (I must say that they are gonna be almost the same that in RPGH though except some minor differences and a raise the amount of stuff one can buy in the shop for more options. I also want you all to know that it is my intention that the stat system prevents everyone from having the same stats, even when a character is maxed out so significant differences between each character exist). One of the problems that with what you propose also is that if we allowed stats based on logic (and I kinda like the idea), we'd probably have all those interested in combat and inexperienced users picking the strongest races, and before we noticed we'd have the site full of Condemneds and characters as strong as Cain from the very beginning, and what happens if something like that happens?, We'd probably have to set up an inquisition to investigate every character and burn at the stake put to nerf'n'reapprove every OP app. That will happen over my corpse, so I'm not taking risks like those 'cause if it goes wrong I will be forced to take measures :/


Regarding the usage of one account for all characters / one account for each character, my initial position is that it is allowed for members to decide how to manage their accounts and characters as they wish.
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Kotaro Kuya

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PostSubject: Re: Do we really need the shop and stat system?   Sat Dec 08, 2012 12:32 am

1.- The finished character sheet must be posted on the character creation forum, waiting for approval.-ME LIKEY.
2.- No abilities or weapons that allow godmodding or metagame.-THIS WILL NEED FURTHER STUDY INTO BASED ON THIS SITES LEVELS OF POWER.
3.- The user controlling a pre-approved character might or might not have posted the apps regarding his / her character, yet, all the abilities and weapons that the character must be reported and explained to those the user plans to RP with. Those abilities and weapons that the user's RP partners approve the use of can be used, the rest cannot.-I LIKE THIS, BUT SINCE ITS A PRE-APPROVED CHARACTER, THERE SHOULD BE A LIMIT TO HOW MANY WEAPONS/ABILITIES THEY CAN RP WITH BEFORE APPROVAL.
4.- If for some reason the administration rejects the character or there are problems regarding the user's use of the pre-approved character, the events of the thread/s on which said character was will be considered null if the users involved on the thread decide so.-LIKE BUT NEEDS WATCHED CAREFULLY.
5.- Thou Shalt Not Kill with a pre-approved character unless you are requested to do so.-ME LIKEY. KILLS ONLY INVOLVE PERMISSIONS.
6.- Pre-approved character cannot join site (plot or not) events of any kind.-ME LIKEY

Now for my opinion of the Store and Stats.

1. I am up for revamping the stat system big time. In Haven, the stat system was simplistic, but after you were maxed, it all depended on the skill of the RP'er and his abilities and weapons. This left novice RP'ers or people who lacked the knowledge to make abilities or weapons that could help multiple situations in the dust, and never able to climb up because things were so unfair. I am not completely sure on how to revamp the stats, but they need revamped big time.

2 As for the store, I believe the things you buy in the store, should not be things that can help you blow someone away in an RP. Instead I believe the store should be used to enhance your characters depth. Property purchasing (Even man made/ artificial land) for one can be used. I don't like the idea that a new character(Even if there are ranks) Can spend money to but ability after ability slot then spam abilities to make himself strong. God knows how much abuse of this would come if he found a way to spam stat upgrades @_@

But back to basics, the store should be used for depth and not power. To upgrade your character, I suggest something much like Haven's missions tower, however, each upgrade is actually linked to a part in your characters plot. We say how much is needed in a thread they must make (Word number, paragraphs, posts etc.) and then they can go at it solo or with a reliable partner. If they need staff help, they can ask. However, they must follow our limits we have given and it must be a point in their plot that their character must pass.

I understand no one likes rushing their plot out of fear that once its done, the character will seem bland. Which is why this system could help advance the plot using (Dare i say it?) 'Filler side plots beside the main.' if they wish to slow down the progress. That way its their own fault if they finish their plot prematurely just to upgrade, then finding their character boring. There is always a chance they will add another plot to their character (Like I do) in order to keep him fresh, but the staff is here to make sure they have a limit of power XD. I also suggest this because sadly, I find that many RP'ers never really focus on their characters plot and end up giving up on them. It's something I don't like to see. Sad
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Yandere

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PostSubject: Re: Do we really need the shop and stat system?   Sat Dec 08, 2012 8:16 am

I think you missed the whole point of the pre-approval. It's not some kind of wait system, but more the removal of unnecessary staff involvement. Meaning, whatever they post is instantly approved. That said, they won't go completely unchecked either. A staffie could always look at the app and question stuff. As for abusive, Cain-like people, if Cains wanna abuse the system, you do not intervene directly at all. You simply tell the other player involved to reply however they want, and when the Cain complains about it you point them to this rule that you will so conveniently have posted:
"Should godmodding, metagaming or the such be encountered in abilities a player is allowed to deal with/ignore it in whatever original way they desire."

And watch gleefully as the Cain gets trolled IC. And all of a sudden, the more overpowered a character is, the more open to ridicule it becomes.

Moving on, what is all this bs about "picking the strongest races"? xD
That point is only valid when regarding people making "gods". Ofc, that alone is a clear sign of newbiness(No offense), unless the site itself is about gods. You'd do well to discourage that in a more positive way rather than forcing a stat system down people's throats. Also, do note that a solid stat system will eventually create a discrepancy between old and new players. While we can agree it can be seen as a sort of "reward" for old players, the flip side is that it might discourage some new players to join for fear of "not being able to catch up" to all the powerhouses.

Meh, either way I'm confident enough on the system, that if I'm placed in charge of it, I'd be willing to take responsibility for its failure.

Quote :
2. As for the store, I believe the things you buy in the store, should not be things that can help you blow someone away in an RP.
I agree with Kuya in that the shop system should be a "secondary feature"

I don't agree however, with his mission system... mostly cause I didn't like RPGH's system and this is a copy of it. xD
While the basic idea is good, the execution kinda fails, here's what I would suggest for it.
1. Have the normal mission system.
2. Allow for any thread to become a "personal mission" That will count towards any mission requirements.
(ex. say kuya and abel begin a thread by arguing over who should get to date the girl... then I show up and kidnap the girl... then abel and kuya join forces to save the girl... or each tries to do it individually. But either way, it turns a normal thread into a "personal mission")
3. No word counts. Seriously, rping is not about word count. In fact, I've seen people who can write tons of words per post and say absolutely nothing, making them bad rp'ers.
4. Have ACTIVE members become game masters so they can run missions, or play bosses/enemies, should the mission require it.
5. Missions should encourage group rping instead of solo rping.

Also, for stat requirements, should you choose to have them, things like training threads, or threads that require the character to constantly push itself, should also be considered.
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Abel XIV
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PostSubject: Re: Do we really need the shop and stat system?   Sat Dec 08, 2012 9:16 am

I cannot allow such a system as the one you are proposing, Q. If I did, this would become anarchy. Now, you know what I think about anarchy, but sadly I don't think users are prepared for self regulation, much less have fun while doing so. This site needs rules that keep it from falling into chaos. Plus, your system is based on regulation through conflict between the normal and abusive members. It is a system that rather than improving coexistence, greatly puts it at risk. I did get your point, but it's just too troublesome to do it the way you proposed :/

And regarding your proposition about upgrades... How about if you two RP a bit here (I'll create a forum for ya') and show me how your systems work?, I think I need to see it in action before making any decissions.

For convenience, you can use either the stat system in Haven (since the one here is not ready) or a symbolic system of 10 levels. Try to show me your characters earning abilities and weapons, alright?

PD: There's no need for you to put a lot of effort into it, just have fun and RP as you normally would. With a pair of threads it should be enough. If you need more players, I'll gladly join.
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Yandere

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PostSubject: Re: Do we really need the shop and stat system?   Sat Dec 08, 2012 10:14 am

Yay, photoshop ftw. xD

Anyway, back on topic. I understand your fear of anarchy, but really, whether you have this free system or a concrete system, those who want to abuse it will find a way around either; causing the conflict you so fear.

The goal of my system is not so much to cause conflict, but to allow the normal players to circumvent abusive players (assuming they actually rp with them in the first place), while at the same time ridiculing them. With your stating in the rules that you'll be supporting the normal players, the abusers will either a. stop being abusive or b. leave. either way it's win-win. Also you'd be surprised what a bit of encouragement from the staff can accomplish. If you refrain from making horribly op characters, you'll find that members will be inclined to follow suit.

But up to you really, in the end any system you implement can be abused (I've seen Cain abuse both systems. xD).

As for the whole upgrade rp, I'm not exactly sure what you're looking for. Kuya simply said to use a mission system as a means to allow/disallow stat upgrades. I merely expanded on that. xD
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Scarlet Other

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PostSubject: Re: Do we really need the shop and stat system?   Sat Dec 08, 2012 1:08 pm

Abel XIV wrote:
I
1.- The finished character sheet must be posted on the character creation forum, waiting for approval.

I'd propose a [Generating] user group in which all newcomers are drafted into, instead of "new member"/"Noob" or something. Generating members have their characters suspended in a state if limbo between acceptance and denial, they are free to roleplay but cannot effect site plot or cause any effects within their topics that would cause lasting impact to the IC world, including any characters interacted with within the topic, because in a sense they are not yet "real".


Quote :

2.- No abilities or weapons that allow godmodding or metagame.


Godmodding and Metagame seem to be broad and general terms interpreted differently by the individuals. Instead, I would propose simply stating that any spell or ability cannot by it's very nature force an effect on another individual that would have either harmful or beneficial repercussions. An attack can be nearly unavoidable or extremely hard to avoid, logic may even demand that the attack hit. However, having an ability that skips all this and goes straight to affecting the target is denied. Thus a tsunami like power can be acceptable, but a mind-blast or organic disruption that originates within the target's own body would not be acceptable. Mind Control could even be potentially acceptable if it is not unavoidable and has clear boundaries.

"Abilities that metagame" kind of contradicts itself in my opinion, as an ability that granted knowledge is no longer metagame. An example would be the Libra ability in the Final Fantasy games.


Quote :

3.- The user controlling a pre-approved character might or might not have posted the apps regarding his / her character, yet, all the abilities and weapons that the character must be reported and explained to those the user plans to RP with. Those abilities and weapons that the user's RP partners approve the use of can be used, the rest cannot.

*+1 and points to my entry on Generating characters above*

Quote :

4.- If for some reason the administration rejects the character or there are problems regarding the user's use of the pre-approved character, the events of the thread/s on which said character was will be considered null if the users involved on the thread decide so.

Generating Characters.

Quote :

5.- Thou Shalt Not Kill with a pre-approved character unless you are requested to do so.

Thou shalt not kill at all with a Generating character unless the generating character is approved at the time, and thus no longer generating.

Quote :

6.- Pre-approved character cannot join site (plot or not) events of any kind.

+1

Quote :

Besides that, I fear that we are gonna keep the shop and stat system. That shall be debated later when the stat system and shop are up though (I must say that they are gonna be almost the same that in RPGH though except some minor differences and a raise the amount of stuff one can buy in the shop for more options. I also want you all to know that it is my intention that the stat system prevents everyone from having the same stats, even when a character is maxed out so significant differences between each character exist). One of the problems that with what you propose also is that if we allowed stats based on logic (and I kinda like the idea), we'd probably have all those interested in combat and inexperienced users picking the strongest races, and before we noticed we'd have the site full of Condemneds and characters as strong as Cain from the very beginning, and what happens if something like that happens?, We'd probably have to set up an inquisition to investigate every character and burn at the stake put to nerf'n'reapprove every OP app. That will happen over my corpse, so I'm not taking risks like those 'cause if it goes wrong I will be forced to take measures :/

I would propose we get rid of the idea of "maximum" all together and the states not based on categories but in increments, thus allowing for a character that wants to be as strong as the hulk eventually become as strong as the hulk if he focuses on that, or waits long enough.

A potential limiting factor to prevent any "oldie" member with a godly character from killing newbloods, or indeed anyone killing anyone, would be a cosmic law prevalent throughout the gameverse in which existence is thick with supernatural power (perhaps even from some overdeity governing the universe in the game, or simple raw power) which is condensed in the moment of death serving as a barrier, barring Death from reaping individuals as lifeforce energy spills out, taking the person along with it to be "resurrected" or "restored" at wayshrines... This would also allow people to go all out with the "no killing!" idea being less of a "oh, I better restrict myself..." into a "Oh, I can beat the shit out of them and they wont die!".


Quote :

Regarding the usage of one account for all characters / one account for each character, my initial position is that it is allowed for members to decide how to manage their accounts and characters as they wish.
The One account per Character rule wasn't a rule of convenience, it was because of the way the accounts were set up to effectively be the character. They couldn't easily house multiple characters because of all the information and the "character sheet" page. The account stored the information such as race, stats, titles, all that. Thus one account per character.

Instead I'd simply not have a limit on accounts, and perhaps require accounts to share a common name within. Like Syn Cain, Syn Syn, or Syn Kyuberry. Or Abel Monkey, Abel Abel, or Abel Condemned. Whatever. just the first part of the name being the member's name, then what follows would be the character's name or simple name of that individual account. That is just an idea of course.




Yandere wrote:
As for abusive, Cain-like people, if Cains wanna abuse the system, you do not intervene directly at all.
Lemme stop right here...
I, yes I (hello), never intended to abuse the system. Things just turned out that way because I'm ridiculous and can't stop the urge to power creep due to a personal belief system of no dead ends in the development of one's power or capability.
You simply must find a way to reach or otherwise unlock it.

Quote :


You simply tell the other player involved to reply however they want, and when the Cain complains about it you point them to this rule that you will so conveniently have posted:
"Should godmodding, metagaming or the such be encountered in abilities a player is allowed to deal with/ignore it in whatever original way they desire."

And watch gleefully as the Cain gets trolled IC. And all of a sudden, the more overpowered a character is, the more open to ridicule it becomes.
I must point out that that sounds... stupid... If "Cain" is being generally OP then Cain is just being generally OP, it does not give license for a weaker character that is disadvantaged to suddenly gain advantage by deciding that his or her Fire-Mage now has the ability to turn into water or something.

Now, instead here is where I'd promote the idea of Spontaneous Empowerment, where a character raises in power level through great suffering, willpower, and/or general determination to succeed, even fear would work.
This is the concept where in an anime or manga, the character is on the verge of defeat but pulls through to grow in power level and/or develop a new tactic or ability logical for the character and situation. It could even come from strange sources, such as Natsu making a last ditch effort and consuming Etherion.
This is rarely without side effect, and can potentially be lethal (for dramatic, heroic, and tragic moments), or simply incredibly taxing leaving the character bedridden or at least side lined for some time thereafter once the fight is finished.

Quote :
Also, do note that a solid stat system will eventually create a discrepancy between old and new players. While we can agree it can be seen as a sort of "reward" for old players, the flip side is that it might discourage some new players to join for fear of "not being able to catch up" to all the powerhouses.

*dies inside*
There should be a discrepancy between new players just joining the fray and the old players who have worked hard and for who knows how long to cultivate their capability.
While I hate the idea of discouraging new players, perhaps they weren't all that worth having if they are so easily dissuaded, as who know what minute insult they'd quit over in the future anyway.

I know the feeling of "oh shit, look how powerful these older players are!", I joined a new site just two days ago where I got that. But you know what? It's a challenge. Those people earned that power, it isn't my job to yell and spout insults and bitchy moans at them hoping to get them nerfed. No. It's my job to look at them, shake their hand, and whisper in their ear "Just you wait, I'm coming for you".


Quote :
2. As for the store, I believe the things you buy in the store, should not be things that can help you blow someone away in an RP.
If you don't purchase such things in the store, where and how else are we supposed to grow?

The store should definitely be full of items that provide either fun RP purposes, fun or useful combat advantages, or fun things in general for players or members themselves to make use of, but in a way that makes it feel like a fun thing that comes after the game itself.

Quote :

1. Have the normal mission system.
2. Allow for any thread to become a "personal mission" That will count towards any mission requirements.
(ex. say kuya and abel begin a thread by arguing over who should get to date the girl... then I show up and kidnap the girl... then abel and kuya join forces to save the girl... or each tries to do it individually. But either way, it turns a normal thread into a "personal mission")
A reward system in place for personal missions would be lovely.

Quote :

3. No word counts. Seriously, rping is not about word count. In fact, I've seen people who can write tons of words per post and say absolutely nothing, making them bad rp'ers.
NEIN!
I can picture it now, someone completing an entire mission in two sentences.
Quote :

4. Have ACTIVE members become game masters so they can run missions, or play bosses/enemies, should the mission require it.
5. Missions should encourage group rping instead of solo rping.
Yes and yes.
That other site I mentioned I joined two days ago has this problem, everyone is concentrated on personal development and seeing how far their character can get on their own.
We need some serious measurements in place to promote the idea of teamwork.

Quote :

Also, for stat requirements, should you choose to have them, things like training threads, or threads that require the character to constantly push itself, should also be considered.
This. The other site may have had a problem with solo development, but they had an interesting idea in making players who made spell/ability/ect apps actually make a thread and train for it similar to how they and RPGH handled mission threads.
This served as a way to make sure there was a reason for their possession of a new spell.
One con and one pro I'd point out:
Con: It could prevent some character concepts from being attained within a desirable time frame, though in some cases that could be desired such as a Goku like character.
Pro: Encourages IC character development while giving a legitimate reason to roleplay. If Cain had to make training topics to learn or discover her abilities and spells for every ability or spell, I'd probably have had over 100,000 posts or a lot less spells XD
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Yandere

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PostSubject: Re: Do we really need the shop and stat system?   Sat Dec 08, 2012 5:29 pm

Hi, hi, before continuing, can I request for this line: "A forum dedicated to experienced role-players." to be removed from the banner. Lines like that are usually seen in a bad light in the rp community as they're usually associated with stuck up noobs.

Quote :
A potential limiting factor to prevent any "oldie" member with a godly character from killing newbloods, or indeed anyone killing anyone, would be a cosmic law prevalent throughout the gameverse in which existence is thick with supernatural power (perhaps even from some overdeity governing the universe in the game, or simple raw power) which is condensed in the moment of death serving as a barrier, barring Death from reaping individuals as lifeforce energy spills out, taking the person along with it to be "resurrected" or "restored" at wayshrines... This would also allow people to go all out with the "no killing!" idea being less of a "oh, I better restrict myself..." into a "Oh, I can beat the shit out of them and they wont die!".
While I find your attempt at a scientific explanation silly, The whole concept of IDGAF if I kill you or if you kill me works for me.
And while we're in the whole killing thing, why add random rules that pre-app chars can't kill when that is a general rule for all characters. (You know, the one that usually states something along the lines of: "No killing without the char owner's permission.")

Quote :
The One account per Character rule wasn't a rule of convenience, it was because of the way the accounts were set up to effectively be the character. They couldn't easily house multiple characters because of all the information and the "character sheet" page. The account stored the information such as race, stats, titles, all that. Thus one account per character.

That all can be replaced by a link in the sig to the character app, which can be tweaked to hold all that information. (and if you remember, for most event signups, rpgh staff made you link the stuff that was already in your character sheet to begin with.)
Also while titles were brought up, titles better not give chars more random abilities. I think when it comes to the random old vs new member discrepancies this is where my problem lies, not so much in the stat system itself. (I mean, you don't see Obama or the Pope developing superpowers just cause they randomly became the president or the pope respectively.)

Quote :
I must point out that that sounds... stupid... If "Cain" is being generally OP then Cain is just being generally OP, it does not give license for a weaker character that is disadvantaged to suddenly gain advantage by deciding that his or her Fire-Mage now has the ability to turn into water or something.

Now, instead here is where I'd promote the idea of Spontaneous Empowerment, where a character raises in power level through great suffering, willpower, and/or general determination to succeed, even fear would work.
I never said anything about pulling abilities out of your ass, that's for newbs. But alas, I suggest we agree to disagree here. You can spontaneously empower yourself, I'll constantly troll and we can both achieve the same goal in the way we both enjoy the most. ;D

Quote :
There should be a discrepancy between new players just joining the fray and the old players who have worked hard and for who knows how long to cultivate their capability.
I'll take that as a fair point. That said, during my whole stay in rpgh I never saw a single person actually work hard for their achievements. Then again as I mentioned above, it seems my real problem was with the whole title = power set up and not so much with the stat system itself.
(Don't get me wrong, I still much rather see freeflow rp over the mmo-feeling of stat rp)

Quote :
If you don't purchase such things in the store, where and how else are we supposed to grow?
Did you ever think of rping it out? Or am I alone in thinking that it makes more sense for growth to happen IC than through a bunch of random OOC purchases?

Quote :
A reward system in place for personal missions would be lovely.
This, for example, is a viable replacement for the shop if done correctly. As your 'reward' would be IC growth/development.

Quote :
NEIN!
I can picture it now, someone completing an entire mission in two sentences.
Those must be epic sentences and likely not grammatically correct. But if their rp style is short and to the point who are you to tell them they're wrong for not writing novels. Also, since we both seem to agree in making missions "multiplayer" this whole 2 sentence mission should be impossible anyway. xD
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Scarlet Other

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PostSubject: Re: Do we really need the shop and stat system?   Sun Dec 09, 2012 12:29 am

Yandere wrote:
Hi, hi, before continuing, can I request for this line: "A forum dedicated to experienced role-players." to be removed from the banner. Lines like that are usually seen in a bad light in the rp community as they're usually associated with stuck up noobs.
This is likely a definite yes. Lines like that are usually associated with stuck up and arrogant players.

Quote :

While I find your attempt at a scientific explanation silly, The whole concept of IDGAF if I kill you or if you kill me works for me.
And while we're in the whole killing thing, why add random rules that pre-app chars can't kill when that is a general rule for all characters. (You know, the one that usually states something along the lines of: "No killing without the char owner's permission.")
"Scientific"? It was clearly supernatural.
To your idea of rules, back to "Generating" characters.
Quote :


That all can be replaced by a link in the sig to the character app, which can be tweaked to hold all that information. (and if you remember, for most event signups, rpgh staff made you link the stuff that was already in your character sheet to begin with.)
That is inconvenient, you see a name and you immediately know that that is the character that is posting. Having to actually follow and determine who is posting complicates things.
In addition, this would greatly promote multiple characters instead of focusing on culturing one or two.
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Also while titles were brought up, titles better not give chars more random abilities. I think when it comes to the random old vs new member discrepancies this is where my problem lies, not so much in the stat system itself. (I mean, you don't see Obama or the Pope developing superpowers just cause they randomly became the president or the pope respectively.)
"Titles" as in social, government, or military titles IS something of a limiting factor. Generally, this limits only a few select players for full capability while restricting others.
If we have titles like that, they would have to come with different abilities and usages, namely ones that involve RPing such as social and political weight or the ability to command NPCs.

Ranks themselves would be independent of those ties, free for anyone to reach for no matter who comes before them.

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I never said anything about pulling abilities out of your ass, that's for newbs. But alas, I suggest we agree to disagree here. You can spontaneously empower yourself, I'll constantly troll and we can both achieve the same goal in the way we both enjoy the most. ;D
You never said, but that is undoubtedly what will happen, or things to that effect. Just because a characters ability may seem godmodding or metagaming, it is an effect of the characters own capability and so long as it isn't blatantly ignoring the other's defense it is NOT illegal. We would be asshats to promote the idea of "Oh, they did something with their ability, so I can do something that I don't have in my own abilities!" across an entire forum.

The rules of Spontaneous Empowerment would be enforced to prevent pricklings from using it as if it was sugar in a bowl of cheerios.

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I'll take that as a fair point. That said, during my whole stay in rpgh I never saw a single person actually work hard for their achievements. Then again as I mentioned above, it seems my real problem was with the whole title = power set up and not so much with the stat system itself.
(Don't get me wrong, I still much rather see freeflow rp over the mmo-feeling of stat rp)
You must have quite a different or selective viewpoint on "Work hard". Many ability applications were detained for weeks on end, or even after approved pulled back for more bullshitting because someone whined or yet another new rule was thrown out there.
It was definitely stressful.

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Did you ever think of rping it out? Or am I alone in thinking that it makes more sense for growth to happen IC than through a bunch of random OOC purchases?
That would be the point of training topics, where you acquire the power. The purchase is what gives you the license to acquire it to control the flow of power so it doesn't come rushing out all at once.

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PostSubject: Re: Do we really need the shop and stat system?   Sun Dec 09, 2012 4:56 am

Lol, I was in the middle of another long reply and then enlightenment came to me. I'm not gonna bother arguing anymore, I've already said what needs to be said. Do whatever you want, if I like it I'll stay, if not then I have other things to keep me occupied. xD

Only points I really care to address:
Yes cain, we have different views on "work hard". Since this particular instance was about characters, said "hard work" should be done IC. Therefore OOC stress has nothing to do with it... not to mention if a site meant for recreation stresses you you're better off leaving it anyway. xD

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If we have titles like that, they would have to come with different abilities and usages, namely ones that involve RPing such as social and political weight or the ability to command NPCs.
I'm fine with the whole being able to lead thing. What I don't wanna see is the pre-limit rpgh system where 90% of the players were limited to x amount of things, while the elite few (who were also conveniently picked by the staff) had access to unlimited power.
In my eyes it should be your personal abilities which determine if you acquire the title or not. The title itself should only really have the leadership perks.
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PostSubject: Re: Do we really need the shop and stat system?   Sun Dec 09, 2012 5:27 am

I haven't read anything of your replies yet, but since I don't have time to do so I will just remind you to love eachother, hug every 10 mins and to keep things friendly ^^~
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